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Leader| bardofely | 6
posts | | andyfowles | 3
posts | | MaryJ | 3
posts | | terrigirl | | | karlb | | | strippersrus | | | Zappa | | | seibu | | | artboy1963 | | | johnny zircon | |
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| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Do you believe that manmade Co2 is the MAIN cause of global warming? |
| Yes |
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20% |
[ 5 ] |
| No |
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64% |
[ 16 ] |
| Don't know / Undecided |
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16% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 25 |
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karlb
Moderator
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 3962
Location: Tenerife
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There is a lot of bull(&& in the cleaning industry Lea. Believe me. I know what goes into our products. Maybe I will start another thread but this one is Funkys.
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Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:03 pm
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rob
Moderator
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 7713
Location: Tenerife
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Although I love good clean healthy debate I can't take on Funky as I agree with him.
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Remember: You don't stop laughing because you grow old, You grow old because you stop laughing. |
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Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:38 pm
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karlb
Moderator
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 3962
Location: Tenerife
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And so do I.
Sorry Funky,
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The sky is not less blue because the blind man does not see it. |
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Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:36 pm
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synchronicity
Senior Reefer
Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 142
Location: La Orotava
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You're arguing that we have no effect on the environment? 
Yeah, right. So prehistoric microbial bacteria can create an enriched oxygen atmosphere over 3 billion years ago, and we're not capable of altering our current environment in any way...
I'm sorry but I'm arguing that:
1) Yes our civilisation is capable of changing the climate (unintentionally).
2) No I don't think we're smart enough to control it once it becomes a real problem.
You seem to be in true denial.  I don't wish to debate it any further as it's a waste of time. We should be acting now, not stalling. The time for stalling was in the 80s.  |
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Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:14 pm
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funky
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 1698
Location: He's behind you ........
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| synchronicity wrote: | You're arguing that we have no effect on the environment?
No, if you read the last 50 or so posts, you'll see that I'm arguing that manmade Co2 is not responsible for 'alleged' global warming. By the way, an interesting article below challenging the idea that the planet is still even heating up
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature/Monitors/Report/Worldwide/Global/Cooling/article10866.htm
Yeah, right. So prehistoric microbial bacteria can create an enriched oxygen atmosphere over 3 billion years ago, and we're not capable of altering our current environment in any way...
I'm sorry, but that is the most ridiculous analogy I have ever heard. I thought you were a scientist?
I'm sorry but I'm arguing (without citing a single fact in support) that:
1) Yes our civilisation is capable of changing the climate (unintentionally). How? In what way? Over what timescale? By what means of measurement? Why can't you answer these questions Syncronicity?
2) No I don't think we're smart enough to control it once it becomes a real problem. Once WHAT becomes a problem? What problems do you believe these changes will cause?
You seem to be in true denial. (Yes, we are truly denying a far fetched theory that NO-ONE seems able to debate with us, including yourself)
I don't wish to debate it any further as it's a waste of time (in other words, you want to quietly drop the subject now that someone has actually challenged the abstract graphs, conclusions and buzzwords that you have probably seen on tv or found on the internet, which you are unable to support with any tangible argument of your own). We should be acting now, not stalling. (more political soundbite. What could we possibly do, when countries like China are increasing their Co2 output exponentially each year??)The time for stalling was in the 80s. |
Yet more soundbite
Syncronicity, despite your face-saving attempt to get out of this discussion, I seriously hope that you have gone away and secretly re-analysed your preconceptions about the whole global warming theory. You are supposedly an intelligent man from a scientific background. You of all people should be the last person to blindly accept the 'science' that is rammed down our throats in newspapers and on TV each day, when there is not a single IPCC scientist able to LOGICALLY challenge the facts that I (and others) have set out in this thread. I suppose I should at least be grateful that you don't behave like the IPCC 'scientists' who threaten to burn at the stake anybody who has the audacity to challenge or debate their half-baked theories.
If you've now read up on the IPCC, you'll know exactly what they are all about and its not a pretty political picture. However, maybe you still don't believe that the few hundred out of their scientists that do religiously subscribe to the theory could possibly be misled, coerced or just plain wrong? That's what they said about 650 odd MPs and hundreds of U.S. Congressmen and Senators who blindly authorised us to go to war with Iraq based on false information and lies. Conspiracy Theory? No, just the reality of Manipulated Democracy.
There are 1001 pressing matters affecting our planet's environment that I will quite happily campaign for. Sadly, Global Warming is not one of them.[/b]
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Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:30 pm
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funky
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 1698
Location: He's behind you ........
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In absence of anyone having anything constructive to say in support of the 'manmade global warming' theory, I thought I would do their homework for them (so no one can accuse me of not inviting both sides of the argument) and bring to everyone's attention the best effort I have been able to find to support the manmade global warming theory and 'debunk' the critics such as myself. Each 'argument' is dealt with in a separate paragraph for ease of reading.
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462
Before you read it, see if you agree that each response contains LITTLE OR NO REAL SCIENCE. I also noticed that the writer attempts to draw attention away from the real issues by throwing in red-herrings (such as claiming that sceptics blame Cosmic Rays for Global Warming (er, no SERIOUS sceptic has ever argued this to my knowledge!!).
The U.S. Government used this technique with UFO investigations, by getting some stooge to stand up and claim something totally outrageous like she was abducted by Aliens and had sex with Jesus on their spaceship etc in order to make everyone sneer at UFO believers and hence tar all genuine investigators with the same brush).
Anyway, have a look through each argument and make up your own mind. I think after the first few you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about.
Then, for comparison, take a look at http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/arguments.html
Which website do you think cites real science and which do you think contains buzzwords and smokescreens?
In absence of any further serious discussion regarding the subject, I would conclude that as a non-scientist, I cannot PROVE that the 'alleged' current global warming trend is not linked to manmade Co2. However, more disturbingly, the so-called consensus of world scientists ramming the theory down our throats are EQUALLY UNABLE to prove that it DOES exist, even on a balance of probabilities (50/50).
The most obvious fact is that so-called 'climate models' and studies conspicuously ignore solar activity / volcanoes / Earth's Orbit / natural planetary cycles from their calculations. Yet in the same breath, they ADMIT that these are ALL relevant factors, but they then draw some stupid unsupported conclusion that these factors were dismissed as insignificant A LONG TIME AGO (i.e. don't you dare question us on these again, as we're fresh out of answers or excuses).
To me, its like saying "How dare you question whether God exists, he's been worshipped in some shape or form for over 5000 years by the vast majority of people on the planet. We don't have to explain our beliefs after all that time. Are you suggesting billions of people are all wrong but you alone are right?? You must be a conspiracy theorist.... Or perhaps you're being funded by Scientology etc. Quick everyone, we've got a heretic in our midst, cast him out or smite him or something!!
So WHY don't scientists include all these complex factors in their calculations and models? DUH !!! BECAUSE THEIR INTERACTIONS AND EFFECTS ARE CURRENTLY WAY TOO COMPLEX FOR MOST SCIENTISTS TO UNDERSTAND, LET ALONE CALCULATE !! CAN ANY SCIENTIST PREDICT THE WEATHER NEXT WEEK?? CAN ANY SCIENTIST PREDICT WHEN A VOLCANO WILL NEXT ERUPT?? CAN ANY SCIENTIST PREDICT AN EARTHQUAKE? CAN ANY SCIENTIST PREDICT WHERE A TORNADO WILL APPEAR?
OF COURSE THEY CAN'T, SO WHY THE HELL DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THAT ANY SCIENTIST CAN CATEGORICALLY DISMISS ALL THESE MASSIVE FACTORS AND INSTEAD BLAME A MINISCULE 1% MANMADE INCREASE IN Co2 IN THE ATMOSPHERE FOR ALL APPARENT CHANGES IN TEMPERATURE RECORDED DURING THE MINISCULE PERIOD OF TIME SINCE RECORDS BEGAN??
So would our governments please drop the CARBON FOOTPRINT/ CARBON NEUTAL / Co2 TAX POLICIES bulls**t and please go and do some REAL RESEARCH.
_________________
My Paranoia-Management Therapy is going great! Now they're only watching me half the time.... |
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Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:03 am
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bardofely
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 3294
Location: Playa San Marcos, Tenerife
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Tenerife News still does and their front page story is blaming the dry winter here on global warming. I may reply to this but I doubt if they would print what I have to say although they did run my chemtrails article!
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:23 pm
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funky
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 1698
Location: He's behind you ........
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| bardofely wrote: | | Tenerife News still does and their front page story is blaming the dry winter here on global warming. I may reply to this but I doubt if they would print what I have to say although they did run my chemtrails article! |
I missed your chemtrails article in the paper Bard. Is there an archive link where I can see it?
Regarding the global warming story, you should keep the pressure on, Bard. Maybe you could start a petition asking them to run a story acknowledging that a fair number of people do not buy the official story. I know I'd sign up. Surely its in their interests to run both sides of the story.
_________________
My Paranoia-Management Therapy is going great! Now they're only watching me half the time.... |
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:06 pm
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bardofely
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 3294
Location: Playa San Marcos, Tenerife
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| funky wrote: | | bardofely wrote: | | Tenerife News still does and their front page story is blaming the dry winter here on global warming. I may reply to this but I doubt if they would print what I have to say although they did run my chemtrails article! |
I missed your chemtrails article in the paper Bard. Is there an archive link where I can see it?
Regarding the global warming story, you should keep the pressure on, Bard. Maybe you could start a petition asking them to run a story acknowledging that a fair number of people do not buy the official story. I know I'd sign up. Surely its in their interests to run both sides of the story. |
I think I ought to see what I can do with this. They have published anti-fluoride and aspartame expose articles by me before and asked me to reply back to an idiot who wrote in to complain about my fluoride piece. I'll have to put something together and try.
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Find out more about me here: http://www.myspacetenerife.com/index.php?page=view_profile&id=10 |
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:18 pm
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Chris_and_Leanne
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1970
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:47 pm
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bardofely
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 3294
Location: Playa San Marcos, Tenerife
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| Chris_and_Leanne wrote: | | What did the complaint say ?! |
"If people object to mass fluoridation in water supplies on ethical grounds - that is one aspect which I can understand, but not support.
But for Steve Andrews to write and for you to publish the kind of spurious arguments, including cancer scares, an ingredient in cockroach poisons, etc. is degrading to the author and yourselves."
R.O.Leavor
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:51 pm
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karlb
Moderator
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 3962
Location: Tenerife
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No matter what you write though Bard you will always have someone with differing opinions, no matter what the subject.
_________________
Need a cleaner in South Tenerife ? Cleaning just got better... www.maid4tenerife.com
Who am I? Check out MySpaceTenerife.
The sky is not less blue because the blind man does not see it. |
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:54 pm
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Chris_and_Leanne
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1970
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Yeah that's true Bard ! Although you would think most people would read it and think, they have a different opinion ... not write in to complain... after all once it has been published he can't change it ?!? But I suppose it was just him expressing his opposite opinion!
Although I bet you enjoyed replying to it eh Bard ?!
Lea x
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Holistic Therapist and Reiki Practioner, Burnley, UK. |
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:57 pm
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bardofely
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 3294
Location: Playa San Marcos, Tenerife
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| karlb wrote: | | No matter what you write though Bard you will always have someone with differing opinions, no matter what the subject. |
Yes and it is actually a sign of good journalism when it provokes feedback good or bad. I know a top writer for the South Wales Echo who upsets readers on a regular basis and there was even a demo held against him! 
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:03 pm
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bardofely
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Posts: 3294
Location: Playa San Marcos, Tenerife
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| Chris_and_Leanne wrote: | Yeah that's true Bard ! Although you would think most people would read it and think, they have a different opinion ... not write in to complain... after all once it has been published he can't change it ?!? But I suppose it was just him expressing his opposite opinion!
Although I bet you enjoyed replying to it eh Bard ?!
Lea x |
Yes, I did relish replying so that there was little that the person complaining could counter my arguments and many references with and he didn't!
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Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:05 pm
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