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1969tammy0
Junior Reefer
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Florida
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 Post subject: HOPE TO BE ON OUR WAY |
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Hi to all, Sorry not posted for a while.
Just to fill you all in. We have sold our Business here in Florida, and should close on the Business the end of April.
We hope to come over the first week in June, as Alan has to give a months training to the new buyer, and our eldest Daughter does not Graduate School until the 31st of May.
As you all know from the first ever post we made, we are coming to Tenerife and have never been to the island. The Knowledge we have is only through reading posts on this site, and research on the net. It seems like a good place to bring the family. The climate is the same as Florida, without the Visa crap and expensive Health care, which looks good to us.
We have some worries though, in fact we have ( Cold Feet ) we are 100% sure on the move, going back to the UK is not an option.
We have been looking at Businesses out there, and they seem so cheap. For Instants a Business in Tenerife at 30.000 Euros is Netting 4.000 Euros a month. Here in Florida the self and same type Business Netting the same, would cost at least $100.000. The Business Broker over there said, the Owner had no Accounts from a Accountant, but kept his own books. Are these cheap Businesses a bit shady ? and should we stay clear. The Broker said most Businesses are run like this in Tenerife ?
We have always been self employed, and had Accounts and Tax returns with all our Businesses, but there seams to be a lot of businesses out there for sale like this. Some look to good to be True. My Instinct is to say they are, but who are we to know, not knowing how the system works out there.
Hope you can shed some light on this Tammy. |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:36 pm
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Dianne
Pro Reefer
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 640
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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Tammy,
Well it looks as if your well and truly going to be on your way soon,
sorry I can help with your questions but my guess is Rob will be able to point you in the right direction and give you details of who to speak to regarding your concerns.
Good luck and hope everything works out for you and your family.
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not long till summer........ yepeeeeeeeee  |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:55 pm
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funky
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 1658
Location: He's behind you ........
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| Post subject: Re: HOPE TO BE ON OUR WAY |
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| 1969tammy0 wrote: | Hi to all, Sorry not posted for a while.
Just to fill you all in. We have sold our Business here in Florida, and should close on the Business the end of April.
We hope to come over the first week in June, as Alan has to give a months training to the new buyer, and our eldest Daughter does not Graduate School until the 31st of May.
As you all know from the first ever post we made, we are coming to Tenerife and have never been to the island. The Knowledge we have is only through reading posts on this site, and research on the net. It seems like a good place to bring the family. The climate is the same as Florida, without the Visa crap and expensive Health care, which looks good to us.
We have some worries though, in fact we have ( Cold Feet ) we are 100% sure on the move, going back to the UK is not an option.
We have been looking at Businesses out there, and they seem so cheap. For Instants a Business in Tenerife at 30.000 Euros is Netting 4.000 Euros a month. Here in Florida the self and same type Business Netting the same, would cost at least $100.000. The Business Broker over there said, the Owner had no Accounts from a Accountant, but kept his own books. Are these cheap Businesses a bit shady ? and should we stay clear. The Broker said most Businesses are run like this in Tenerife ?
We have always been self employed, and had Accounts and Tax returns with all our Businesses, but there seams to be a lot of businesses out there for sale like this. Some look to good to be True. My Instinct is to say they are, but who are we to know, not knowing how the system works out there.
Hope you can shed some light on this Tammy. |
Hi Tammy and welcome back.
First and foremost, forgive me for being blunt, but are you REALLY contemplating moving to an island you have never even VISITED before??? I can honestly say that I've never heard of anyone doing that. Even the crazy English that sink their life savings into a bar in order to go bust in 6 months at least have the decency to come here on holiday a few times first. 
The climate is similar, but nowhere near identical to Florida. You'll find it considerably cooler for much of the year here. There is no humidity and other than for a few odd days in the summer or during a calima, there is none of the overpowering heat requiring constant air conditioning that you get in Florida. There is also hardly any rainfall here (except today I might add  ) and certainly no hurricanes or severe storms (other than perhaps once every 15 years or so).
Healthcare is comparable to (or arguably better) than that in the U.K. However, if you are employed or self-employed via your own business, you will end up paying in the region of 240 - 450 per month for the privilege of paying into the social security system. Compare that to private medical insurance in the U.S and its probably even more expensive here.
Admittedly there are no visa worries provided you have E.U. passports.
Regarding your business plans, I think you need to look long and hard at what information and offers you are being 'fed' by the agents/brokers. Do you honestly believe that anyone will sell you a going concern business for 30,000 that nets (i.e. produces an end profit of) 4,000 per month (48,000 per year)? And that has to include the the agent's profit of several thousand Euros too!! Think about it and you'll realise just how ridiculous this is. However if there are such businesses genuinely available, let me know and I'll buy 10 of them tomorrow. 
So what type of business are you looking to buy? If its a bar or restaurant, I would automatically say 'forget it'. There are far too many, the competition is too fierce, there are too few tourists spending money at present and the work/hours are long and hard for very little reward. You will end up going bust and kissing goodbye to your savings.
As for other types of businesses, there might be genuine options, but not at the budget you are talking about. So why not take the time and effort to set up your own from scratch? The experience will also educate you as to the local bureaucracy (something you'll need to get to grips with at an early stage). Unless they cost a huge amount of money, there are very few businesses that could not be copied or imitated with the right amount of knowledge and investment. You are however strongly limited by what you can do if you don't speak Spanish etc. For instance, I can't imagine you running a successful locksmiths in the south unless you also branch out to Spanish/German speaking clients.
Its true that most small businesses don't bother to prepare proper accounts or keep proper records. 'Shady' is probably an understatement. In terms of a sale, this essentially devalues their businesses even further. I would accept no representations about their business beyond what they can categorically prove or what you can see with your own eyes over a continued period of time. Trust no one and believe nothing. And under no circumstances should you buy an existing limited company. You might as well pop down to the casino and place your life savings on number 13.
There are lots of us who will be happy to give you more specific advice as and when you require it, but at the moment, I would say you should go away and think long and hard about what you are proposing. If not, you are prime candidates to become the next 'statistic' Tenerife horror story.
_________________
My Paranoia-Management Therapy is going great! Now they're only watching me half the time.... |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:11 pm
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rob
Moderator
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 7119
Location: Tenerife
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Do you honestly believe that anyone will sell you a going concern business for 30,000 that nets (i.e. produces an end profit of) 4,000 per month (48,000 per year)? And that has to include the the agent's profit of several thousand Euros too!! Think about it and you'll realise just how ridiculous this is. However if there are such businesses genuinely available, let me know and I'll buy 10 of them tomorrow.
Please can I have ten of those as well.
A very rough valuation guide to a business producing a net profit of 4,000 Euros per month would be 120,000 Euros plus any stock and assets. Do you really believe that it earns that sort of money?
To borrow 30,000 Euros for a year will mean repayments of about 2,700 per month for one year. i.e. you make 1,300 per month for the first year and then when its paid for you'll earn FOUR times as much as what's considered a decent wage here.
Forget finding me ten of them.....I'll have 100 please.
Sorry if this is a little bit rude but quite frankly its ridiculous.
As I've said many times......come out here and work for someone else and study the situation before jumping in with your life savings. Even if you spent 3 months out here and then decided that it wasn't for you...... it will have cost you money but not your life savings!
Running a business and not doing tax returns is a serious offence..... check out the conditions in Spanish jails!
_________________
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Who am I? Follow the myspacetenerife link under my avatar.
Remember: You don't stop laughing because you grow old, You grow old because you stop laughing.
Last edited by rob on Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:38 pm
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1969tammy0
Junior Reefer
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Florida
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Thank's for the info Funky.
We have lived in Florida for four years now, and the same is true in Florida, Britt's get ripped off, lose their life's savings, and you can't trust a soul here either.
Maybe going over old ground, but the main reason we are leaving is the visa/immigration hastle.... and cost, every two years we have to renew our visa, filing forms and all the family flying back to the embassy in the UK, costing around $7/8000 all told, but the immigration are also constantly adding more hoops to jump through, and it people with genuine business's are getting refused every day, so, we live constantly worrying whether we will be here next year and so forth, not forgetting that our daughter is 18 in April, and not allowed to work, and when she is 21, she has to leave the USA anyway. (immigration law)
The health insurance for our family is around $1000.00 per month, in fact a good breakdown of the cost of living here is: PER MONTH... (4 bedroom with pool) mortgage $1600, home insurance, property tax $500, utilities $300/$350, car insurance (after no claims) $100, telephone $100, cell phone unlimited calls $130, dental insurance... etc, it add's up to about $3600 per month, not including food and petrol, members on the forum may calculate this into euro's or pounds, but it doe's not work like that, we earn the dollar and need 4200 (we will say units) a month to live, I would like to know the same comparison (units) in Tenerife if anyone can oblige.
Yes, it is a great risk, coming to an island where we have never been, but that's the position we have put ourselves in... the UK is out, all we want is a nice climate, and somewhere we can work hard and get rewarded for our efforts, and obviously not having the constant worry if we will get kicked out at some time.
Florida is a fantastic place to live, and we know it will take some beating.
So, at this moment, Tenerife is our option, we will have enough money to start a new life, or should I say... another new life... again, and from what we have learned here.... we will not be taken for a ride, we came here trusting everyone, we now doubt everyone and everything and have become very cautious and greedy when it comes to money, and you would be right Funky, we would not buy a business without proof of accounts and business bank statements.
So, Funky, the reply you posted was greatly appreciated, that's why we joined this forum, and we will appreciate any kind information and advice.
Just a side note, everyone we have talked to has advised us to start a business rather than buy one, that may now be our aim, it's quite the opposite here, you are warned not to start you own... even if it was allowed on the E2 visa.
Thanks Tammy. |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:38 pm
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1969tammy0
Junior Reefer
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Florida
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Hi Rob, we were not looking at the business's blind, we knew they were not what they seemed, and we know how the pricing of business's are worked out, we have sold 3 business over the past 6 years.
We just wanted confirmation that there are business owners and brokers over there that have the same high expectations as there are over here.
Alan said the same as you, if they are that price we can buy 15, and live like kings.
Thanks Tammy |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:47 pm
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funky
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 1658
Location: He's behind you ........
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| 1969tammy0 wrote: | Thank's for the info Funky.
We have lived in Florida for four years now, and the same is true in Florida, Britt's get ripped off, lose their life's savings, and you can't trust a soul here either.
Maybe going over old ground, but the main reason we are leaving is the visa/immigration hastle.... and cost, every two years we have to renew our visa, filing forms and all the family flying back to the embassy in the UK, costing around $7/8000 all told, but the immigration are also constantly adding more hoops to jump through, and it people with genuine business's are getting refused every day, so, we live constantly worrying whether we will be here next year and so forth, not forgetting that our daughter is 18 in April, and not allowed to work, and when she is 21, she has to leave the USA anyway. (immigration law)
The health insurance for our family is around $1000.00 per month, in fact a good breakdown of the cost of living here is: PER MONTH... (4 bedroom with pool) mortgage $1600, home insurance, property tax $500, utilities $300/$350, car insurance (after no claims) $100, telephone $100, cell phone unlimited calls $130, dental insurance... etc, it add's up to about $3600 per month, not including food and petrol, members on the forum may calculate this into euro's or pounds, but it doe's not work like that, we earn the dollar and need 4200 (we will say units) a month to live, I would like to know the same comparison (units) in Tenerife if anyone can oblige.
Yes, it is a great risk, coming to an island where we have never been, but that's the position we have put ourselves in... the UK is out, all we want is a nice climate, and somewhere we can work hard and get rewarded for our efforts, and obviously not having the constant worry if we will get kicked out at some time.
Florida is a fantastic place to live, and we know it will take some beating.
So, at this moment, Tenerife is our option, we will have enough money to start a new life, or should I say... another new life... again, and from what we have learned here.... we will not be taken for a ride, we came here trusting everyone, we now doubt everyone and everything and have become very cautious and greedy when it comes to money, and you would be right Funky, we would not buy a business without proof of accounts and business bank statements.
So, Funky, the reply you posted was greatly appreciated, that's why we joined this forum, and we will appreciate any kind information and advice.
Just a side note, everyone we have talked to has advised us to start a business rather than buy one, that may now be our aim, it's quite the opposite here, you are warned not to start you own... even if it was allowed on the E2 visa.
Thanks Tammy. |
Ok, so the health insurance at $1000 per month (600 EU) is probably not a lot different to what 2 adults will pay in Social Security here. And your private cover is no doubt more comprehensive than the local care here. Dental is not included here though, but it will be a fraction of the cost of private dental treatment in the U.S. I would budget just a few hundred Euros per year for check ups/cleans and the occasional filling/crown etc.
To rent a 4 bedroom house with a pool here will probably cost you upwards of 2,000 a month to rent ($3140 USD). A repayment mortgage will be similar or more in the current financial climate, plus now you will be buying such property at the absolute top of the market.
Home insurance on a 4 bed with a pool will cost in the region of 500 ($780) for the year. Property tax here will cost approx 500 too for teh entire year, although that does not include Rubbish Collection (a further 80 odd per year). Car insurance should cost about 500 for the year unless you are driving a Ferrari. Telephone with ADSL will cost 40 odd monthly plus whatever calls you make.
Whether you require heating in your house depends on where you live on the island and how soft you have become living in Florida. Along the coast here, the interior of an unheated house is unlikely to drop below about 66-72f so long as you close your windows at sundown. Most larger houses have (or should have) solar heating, so your hot water should be free.
Electricity for a 4 bed house with a pool will be in the region of 70 - 100 every 3 months. Water meter charges should be about the same or a bit less. If you need gas (no pipe supply on the island, only bottles), a standard size knee-high bottle costs about 12.
Petrol currently costs 0.82 per litre (don't ask me to work that out in wierd U.S Gallons!) which is almost half the price of the U.K. Distances here are small so petrol goes a long way. New cars are not as cheap as the U.S. but are still fairly good value (the lower end of European prices) but second hand cars are relatively expensive (somehow they seem to last longer here).
Sales tax is currently 5%. Income tax is comparable to the U.S, give or take.
Groceries here are probably comparable with the U.S, certainly compared to the last time I visited Florida (2004). Eating and drinking out are quite a bit cheaper here, unless you go to the fancy restaurants. And we have no urge to leave a 20% tip either 
So that should give you an idea of the cost of living here. As a worst case bottom line for you, the average take-home wage of someone employed full-time here is in the region of 800 - 1000. Income from a business will be as low or high as your successfulness dictates.
_________________
My Paranoia-Management Therapy is going great! Now they're only watching me half the time.... |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:13 pm
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rob
Moderator
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 7119
Location: Tenerife
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Remember that your social payments here do include a pension right after you've paid in for 15 years min.
Most couples working here do not both pay full social but one will be 'employed' by the other (usually very part time) to lessen the social burden.
_________________
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Who am I? Follow the myspacetenerife link under my avatar.
Remember: You don't stop laughing because you grow old, You grow old because you stop laughing. |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:54 pm
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1969tammy0
Junior Reefer
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Florida
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Thanks Funky, just the info we were looking for, but as I said, our costs can't be calculated into Euro's, because we earn the $ and you earn the Euro, we get a lot of Brit vacationers here saying how cheep everything is, but they are calculating using the exchange rate (half).
So we have worked it out that our cost to own a home here in the states are around 3600.00 (units) a month and in Tenerife a similar living would be around 2500 (units).
The average take home wage here is between 1400 and 2000 per month, that's estimated on what I pay my employee's.
We take a wage of around $5000 a month and that takes care of groceries, petrol and eating out, which to me is a big wage, and we don't eat out that often.
All this information is helping us make decision, believe me, no one would ever understand how hard this is for us, it's a terrible position to be in, and so hard for us... should we go or should we stay?
Thanks Tammy |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:23 pm
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funky
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 1658
Location: He's behind you ........
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Why don't you come here for a holiday and decide for yourself? You can't decide from Florida, there are simply too many factors.
I would say that, subject to learning Spanish and having the capital and skills to make a business work, the fact that you have already successfully relocated to a foreign country and established a profitable business there speaks volumes about your character and resolve. On that basis, I would say you have a head start over many folk who think they can crack it in Tenerife.
Many people want to come and live here because the island is beautiful, the climate is great, the people are friendly, the crime rate is low, the food and drink is amazing, the cost of living is 'relatively' cheap and the lifestyle can be second to none. The only real downsides are earning money, bureaucracy and red tape, integrating/learning Spanish and getting homesick/missing family elsewhere.
_________________
My Paranoia-Management Therapy is going great! Now they're only watching me half the time.... |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:45 pm
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rob
Moderator
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 7119
Location: Tenerife
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One of your biggest shocks is likely to be the standard of accommodation. Buying prices in Florida are far lower than here, just take a look at our property section for 4 bedroom villas with pool in a good climate/location and then compare it with the size of house and plot in Florida.
_________________
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Who am I? Follow the myspacetenerife link under my avatar.
Remember: You don't stop laughing because you grow old, You grow old because you stop laughing. |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:49 pm
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1969tammy0
Junior Reefer
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Florida
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Thanks for the confidence boost Funky, again, an example of the situation we are in... because of circumstances, we are what's called land locked, if we leave the states we are not allowed back in, so it would be great to come over and look before we leap, and obviously a natural thing to do, but immigration won't allow us to do that, well we can, but if Tenerife wasn't for us, then we couldn't get back into the states.....???????
Regarding business, we are fortunate that we have the knowledge and experience of starting and buying turn key business's, touch wood, we have always done OK, and so far, we have made good profits during owning the business's and when selling them.
Moving, we had the b**ls to do it once, and it was extremely hard... Visa's, schools, licence's, red tape etc, and it doesn't scare us at all, we sold everything in the UK, and took the risk. (no regrets)
It's great talking to you Funky, I am feeling better, I started the day, with the dilemma of either posting on this forum, of emailing the Samaritans. 
Thanks Tammy. |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:09 pm
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1969tammy0
Junior Reefer
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Florida
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Hi Rob, yes you are right, we talked to a friend who spends a lot of time there and he has also been to visit us here, he said the same thing, we won't get a property there like what we have here, (for the money) we are fortunate, but, what good is a big pool home on a lake, if you're not sure if you can live in it next year?, this is the big bug bearer.
Thanks Tammy, please keep replying, my head's is getting clearer.
Tammy |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:15 pm
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funky
Supreme Reefer
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 1658
Location: He's behind you ........
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One thing you might want to consider though. Living in Florida you are probably used to lots of driving. You'll get far more for your money if you reside further outside the tourist areas and travel for work/nights out etc. For somewhere a lot cheaper, you're probably talking a 20 - 30 min drive. However, Rob and a few others can probably advise you better on this. Transport/education etc for kids is probably the biggest hurdle for you guys in terms of location.
Either way, Rob's right that you won't get anything close for the same money here. But to be honest, that goes for the U.K. and anywhere else half decent in Europe for that matter. The U.S.A has always offered large plots, large cars and oversized fridges for its lucky residents. Europeans have always learned to make do with 'small'.
That's not to say that you can't get a reasonable sized place with a pool and fantastic views for the prices I was quoting before. Just don't expect 10,000 square feet and an infinity pool, that's all. 
_________________
My Paranoia-Management Therapy is going great! Now they're only watching me half the time.... |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:33 pm
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rob
Moderator
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 7119
Location: Tenerife
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All of this is made much harder by the fact that you'll be renting not buying
_________________
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Who am I? Follow the myspacetenerife link under my avatar.
Remember: You don't stop laughing because you grow old, You grow old because you stop laughing. |
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Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:44 pm
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